Paul and Eutyches
What's up everybody? I thought this would be a great topic for our first real blog. Sunday's sermon was over Acts 20:1-12, where Paul is forced to travel through Macedonia twice before he comes to Troas. Here he meets with other Christians during the night and talks on and on, until a young man, Eutyches, falls not only asleep, but out the third story (second in modern terms) window of the home they are meeting in, plummeting to his death. We highlighted the passion Paul had to stay up speaking about life with God and asked whether we as Christians feel passionate like Paul, or more bored to death like Eutyches in our relationship with the Lord. I got an e-mail from Matt VanGent, a "regular" with us at The Rising, and I thought his insights were brilliant. So, I asked if I could post it on the blog and find out what others think. Below is his e-mail, as well as my response and his reply to my e-mail. Enjoy and comment!
- Josh
Josh, what's up, it's Matt VanGent.
Everything you were saying last night really got me thinking. You
talked a lot about having a passionate relationship with God, one where we
should be like Paul who can't shut up because he's so stoked about it.
And I think that is totally valid and a great point. It also seemed
like people who are passionate about God should be able to stay awake
while others talk forever about it. Here's my question: what if a
passionate relationship with God is about way more than sitting around in a
room and listening to someone talk about Him? What if it's more about
our actions? I personally get very antsy sitting around listening to
people talk about God, especially if it's a room full of Christians. I
think i would be somewhat like Eutychus here. Instead of falling asleep
though, I think I would jump out of the window out of excitement for
telling everyone I could about this amazing God. I think the distinction
that needs to be made is in regards to the audience. I'm all for
talking about God and being excited about it. But when it's directed at a
bunch of people who already believe, I think there comes a point when
talk becomes cheap and action needs to take place. Basically, I don't
know if I would equate a passionate relationship with God to sitting
around talking about Him. I think that is definitely part of it, but I
think it is about so much more than that. I don't even know if that's the
point you were driving at last night, but that's what I was hearing.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Let me know what you think if you get a
chance.
In Him,
Matt VanGent
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Matt, thanks for the message man...it was beautifully stated and I think others, myself included, would definitely agree. What struck me about the passage when I kept going over it is the WHY. Why does Paul keep talking on and on, and why does Eutyches seem so uninterested? The reason that I came up with is because Paul has seen and experienced the power of God. I mean he's experienced miracles first-hand most of us only dream of. When you have that kind of relationship with God, where you see and experience Him daily you are bound to be more passionate in your faith, and so because Paul makes God his number one priority (in actuality Paul makes God's missional purpose his #1 priority) and because his relationship with God is so strong, he naturally is passionate for the things of God. Eutyches on the other hand made other activities in his life a priority and so did not experience the same passion.
Matt, I can be a proud guy, but I have to admit after talking with people afterwards and reflecting on your e-mail, I think my initial impressions of the passage were misguided, if not wrong. I think your statement sums up the problem with the sermon last night: "I don't know if I would equate a passionate relationship with God to sitting around talking about Him." There couldn't have been a better way of putting the problem with the sermon. I kept looking at Eutyches and seeing his lack of passion and wondering what is wrong, and why do I and most Christians feel like him? At times I think it might be because we are not making our relationship with God our #1 priority, and so we naturally become less passionate about the things we spend little time investing in. But, I think the deeper comment and more applicable to our group at The Rising would be that it may not have been Eutyches fault. The answer to the question of WHY Paul kept on talking may be because he was passionate, but maybe his passion is misdirected. Maybe Paul is like a lot of Christians, always talking about God and never showing people God. Maybe that's what Paul was doing at the end, showing people the love and power of God, and maybe this is why his actions are recorded and not many of his words.
Anyway, thanks for the e-mail, fire one back when you get a second to reflect on this some more, but I think you hit a major problem with Christians and Christianity. Like I did last night, we are quick to talk and slow to act. Would you care if I shared your e-mail with the group next Sunday? I think others will really identify with what you said. Thanks again man!
Because He lives!
Josh
P.S. If you don't mind, I'd also love to put our discussion up on The Rising blog, so we can see what others think. Let me know how you feel about this. Thanks!
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Josh,
Yeah dude, you can totally do whatever you want with my email on sunday and for the blog. I like what you said about Paul being so passionate because he experienced God first hand. I think there is definitely a place for sharing what God has done, and for someone like Paul I can see how that could take all night. The bottom line as I see it is this: there is a place for both. There's a place for telling people about all that God has done, and there's a place for proving it to them with our actions. I guess it's a both/and instead of an either/or. Those are my initial thoughts on what you wrote. I'll keep thinking about it though and get back to you if I come up with anything else. Peace, Matt
posted by The Rising Community at 8:58 PM
4 Comments:
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12:53 PM
I think it is important to emphasize the fact that the reason Paul went on all night was because he was leaving the next day. That seems to indicate to me, as well as the writer of a commentary I'm reading, that this was not a normal occurence. While I do agree that the NT church was vastly different from our culture, I do not know if I would go so far as to say that these all night gatherings happened frequently.
I fully agree that the main point of this narrative is to show the reader the passion of Paul and the way in which he went about expressing it. As far as Eutychus is concerned, I think it's interesting that he wasn't condemned for falling asleep and wasn't left for dead as a punuishment. Paul revived him and kept on talking. That makes me think it wasn't that big of a deal. Thoughts on that?
-Matt VanGent
12:54 PM
Dale,
you took the words straight out of my mouth in regards to our culture vs. theirs. It is so hard to compare cultures and understand what things carry through regardless of culture and what things are culture specific. Thanks for the insight, it seems pretty right on.
-Matt
6:51 PM
I’m loving this!
Dale, your comment about the "event" culture presumably present in NT times was well stated and needed in this discussion. I think you really get the feeling for this in the rest of chapter 20, as Paul gives his "farewell speech" to another group of Christians. His time is running short and he knows it. It's not incredibly unusual to stay up discussing religious matters (perhaps it is unusual in the excessive amount of time spent talking), especially to an already somewhat secret and private faith.
I think we can all agree though, this is not a passage indicating we need to spend countless hours in church, listening to a speaker. Rather, it is a passage demonstrating Paul's commitment and passion for God's mission. Paul wants to see disciples made, plain and simple.
This is where I see Matt's comments as being incredibly significant and groundbreaking. Maybe preaching at Eutyches wasn't the best way to make disciples. Maybe that's why Luke records more of the actions of this story than the words. Which is the exact opposite of the next half of the chapter; here Luke records a lengthy speech by Paul and much fewer actions of the story.
I think the point is...maybe being a passionate Christian isn't just talking, but actually backing that talk up with actions demonstrative of our passion for Jesus and walking in His footsteps. That was St. Francis Assisi's thought, "Preach the Gospel at all times, and when necessary use words." Obviously, Paul isn't evangelizing here, but I think the concept is still the same: Talk is cheap (and boring), if it is not supported with authentic actions demonstrating Christ.
Another note could include Dale's thoughts on culture. It could be significant that Paul is preaching in such a way that would have been contextual to the location and time period. Perhaps we should do the same. I do like Dale's idea that this is more a critique on Christian culture and our "McDonaldization" of the Church, than it is support for contextual preaching though.
Regardless, we can agree Paul appears passionate for the things of God, while Eutyches fell asleep (here we should remember Randy's comments that we can't be certain in judging motive, cause, and will in this passage) during an important Christian meeting. I think both Eutyches and Paul could learn from this. Eutyches could check his priorities in his life and Paul could remember that being a passionate Christian does not just entail talking endlessly at people.
When all is said and done this should wake us up as Christians and what it means to be the Church. We are meant to be alive and active in our faith, but when we meet as Christians it should be about so much more than just listening to a person talk. We should hold time together as Christians as a huge blessing, we should be excited about the opportunity to worship the Lord and hear from His word, but we should do much more than sit around and talk about it. We should go out and do something about it. I think this Sunday we'll see and remember, Paul did much more than talk.
This Sunday we're going to keep tackling this issue of what it really means to be passionate in our pursuit of Christ! Hope to see you there.
Because He lives!
Josh
2:49 PM
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